Re: Studio Vase - Chinese? Seal Mark

by **Potty** May 12th 2013, 4:04 am

NaomiM wrote:I think the Chinese would look very dimly at anyone putting a copied or faux emporers seal mark on a pot. Regardless of it being difficult to read because of the glaze and angle of the photo, if this is the only mark on the pot then it's either real or a fake.

I don't follow at all sorry Naomi Big Laughter

The Chinese themselves have copied earlier pieces / marks more than anyone, they have been doing so for 100's of years.

I just can't see how a studio pot that is nothing at all like earlier Chinese ceramics (that I know of anyway?), can be a fake?

While I can make out "Great" I can't see the other parts clear enough, so I'm wondering if it's a potters humours take on a Chinese seal, e.g. "Great Ed" or something Excellent

P.S. Could we see how the base is finished please ed?

by **big ed** May 12th 2013, 11:57 am

Studio Vase - Chinese? Seal Mark - Page 2 Base_p10

Base pic , no other markings , can't see anything down the top with a torch or otherwise .

by **big ed** May 12th 2013, 11:58 am

Studio Vase - Chinese? Seal Mark - Page 2 Base_p11

top view

by **NaomiM** May 12th 2013, 12:10 pm

Can you post a close up, in focus, pic of the mark, please.

by **big ed** May 12th 2013, 1:36 pm

Studio Vase - Chinese? Seal Mark - Page 2 Mark_010

These are as good as I can get

by **big ed** May 12th 2013, 1:37 pm

by **big ed** May 12th 2013, 1:38 pm

by **big ed** May 12th 2013, 1:39 pm

by **Potty** May 12th 2013, 2:34 pm

From the clearer pictures it looks like a 2 seal personal seal to me (aka someone know knows next to nowt about them! Cheeky

) and I'm not even sure the first character is "great" like I first thought.

The base is not what I was expecting to see, I'd not be surprised if it turned out to be French after all, but I don't have any useful ideas. Big Laughter

by **Oldmagpie** May 12th 2013, 2:50 pm

NaomiM wrote:The four straight lines on the right hand side of the stamp are typical of Chinese marks, so probably Chinese rather than Japanese. The bottom of the stamp is missing. The glaze is making the marks on the left difficult to make out. Worth checking chinese reign marks in the book while up close to vase.

not sure it helps much but that part of the mark is actually the Chinese mark for 'Great', normally I would expect to see a second character below the 4 lines on a proper Chinese reign mark whereas on this it just seems to be an elongated character, or is there any kind of break between top and bottom of the mark? I would normally expect to see 2 or 4 more characters to the left of great instead of just 1 as appears here. Shrugs

I only recognise the 'Great' mark as its a way to tell which way up a Chinese mark is as its always the 1st character Laughter

by **big ed** May 12th 2013, 3:20 pm

Thanks all , I'm not to good on the chinese characters , but very 1111ful just the same Laughter

by **NaomiM** May 12th 2013, 3:26 pm

Seems to be a two or four character mark. I agree with Potty about it probably being a personal seal. The 4 lines on the right are 'Great' and the character(s) on the left would be the person's name.
Not a usual Chinese emperor's mark, which is normally 6 characters, unless it's a 4 character Kangxi mark, when variations were common.
Might be Korean or Vietnamese piece where they used 2 character dynasty marks, but it doesn't look that early.
Possibly a copied faux-chinese mark made in Japan, but as you commented earlier, it's not a common shape so no reason to copy it.
Assuming it is Oriental, it would be made for internal use, rather than export. Seems quite roughly made, so may be a bottle for liquids or oils rather than a vase.
But that's all speculation. Still a mystery piece.

by **Oldmagpie** May 12th 2013, 3:29 pm

Bit of cross posting going on there, but its possible that it was a European potter trying to 'Chinesify' there work Shock

by **NaomiM** May 12th 2013, 3:31 pm

Just speculating here, but it's possible that it's a court nobleman's personal liquor bottle - just as in the West nobles marked their glass wine and spirit bottles with their personal seals.
(In the East they had pottery rather than glass).

by **NaomiM** May 12th 2013, 3:32 pm

Oldmagpie wrote:Bit of cross posting going on there, but its possible that it was a European potter trying to 'Chinesify' there work

Depends on whether the seal translates as Great Peter Macdonald, or similar. Big Laughter

by **NaomiM** May 12th 2013, 3:33 pm

Might still be Chinese studio pottery.

by **NaomiM** May 12th 2013, 3:33 pm

...seal might translate as Great B'stard Emporer

by **Potty** May 12th 2013, 3:38 pm

I'm thinking along the same likes as Oldmagpie, just because Chinese seals are used does not make it a faux mark (in my opinion), a bit like if one of their potters used a JH monogram, it does not mean they are copying Jane Hamlyn (or one of the various potters who's mark looks nearly identical) Laughter

It could be some simple statement such as "Great Peace" or something that means something to the potter.

by **Potty** May 12th 2013, 3:39 pm

NaomiM wrote:...seal might translate as Great B'stard Emporer

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