Bede Pottery, BR or RR mark and Leach St Ives Pottery stamp

Bit of a long shot, this one . . . can anyone identify this 6-inch diameter stoneware shallow dish which has an impressed cameo of George Washington in the centre? I know it's him, because there's a very faint inscription around the profile which you probably can't see in the photo. The mark looks very much like either Phil Rogers or Philip Revell (although the dish looks absolutely nothing like pots made by either of them). However I contacted them both and both have very politely said it isn't by them.

I'm wondering it if might be souvenir-type ware by a US studio potter?





A photo of the base

Reminds me of Shelf Pottery, Halifax, but I'm not sure if they had a mark along with the paper label.

Thanks for the suggestion, but I don't think it's Shelf Pottery. The Shelf pieces that I've seen use a finer clay a bit like what Tremar used. This dish is made in a fairly coarse, heavier, more granular stoneware.  

does anyone recognise this stamp?
British stoneware stuff.....

It wouldn't be BEDB, would it?

it also has this stamp:


and it's from these plates:

That second mark looks a little like Ian Pirie's mark, (a Scottish potter).

Possibly by Washington potter, Regnor Reinholdsen? Edited to say, not by him https://www.themarksproject.org/marks/reinholdsen

Thanks Naomi, you might well be correct. Unfortunately I can't do a hands-on check against online images because I had completely forgotten about this pot and have absolutely no idea what I did with it. Don't think I sold it. Might have sent it back to a charity shop. Could possibly be buried deep in the attic. No idea .

Good afternoon members,
On Monday night I saw a post on Facebook from Jason who was trying to identify a mark on a pot which was accompanied by a Leach pottery mark.
I hadn’t seen the mark before but it stuck in the 3 brain cells I have left and I attended an auction yesterday.
One of the lots had two large pots which were shown as unmarked. 
I checked and had a serendipitous moment (I was explaining this to a lady and that was her comment not mine…I can’t claim usage) and saw an incised large tea pot had the same makers mark but no pottery mark.
It was suggested on Facebook that it was John Reeve’s mark (I can see why) and he did move around a bit. 
I thought I would ask on here primarily because the work I have researched of his doesn’t seem to encompass the floral incised decoration on this piece preferring in the Leach style to be more along the lines of speedy decoration if any at all.
Any assistance greatly appreciated!

More examples of the mark, including ones associated with the St Ives stamp (the broken pot also had a St Ives stamp). (not John Reeves)
There used to be a St Bede's Pottery at Sheepfolds, Monkwearmouth, in the 19thC, so possibly a 1970s studio pottery set up on the same site

I've merged the threads with this mystery RR mark. All we know is it's Bede Pottery and the potter trained at Leach St Ives, but no other info available

Hi Naomi,
Thanks for your assistance and time - I have to say I had to double take with the mark + Leach mark I thought it was the same photograph from Jason’s post on facebook … which I have attached. I’ve looked at Ian Pirie but his mark in the book, whilst I agree is similar to the questioned mark isn’t his imo and he hasn’t worked at Leach. What I am confused about…..easily done these days is the question which is that the mark on my pot, Jason’s pot and the one on the three plates is imo the same but  it’s not Ian Piries, it appears as if it was determined previously it’s  definitely not John Reeves - it’s hard to explain what I’m trying to say on paper, probably as clear as mud!!
but I hope you can see what I mean. It’s clearly the same mark on the Bede pottery so I am confused!
Interesting though …..nowt like a good mystery!.
It looks like my screenshot from Facebook isn’t clear unfortunately but it is just like the one on your response

Certainly the same RR mark. Not John Reeve's mark as there are several examples of his mark associated with the Leach St Ives Pottery stamp and the fonts are different, and lack the dots. Whoever's it is, they trained at St Ives before setting up their own pottery

Reeve's mark for comparison

NaomiM wrote:Certainly the same RR mark. Not John Reeve's mark as there are several examples associated with the Leach St Ives Pottery stamp and the fonts are different, and lack the dots. Whoever's it is, they trained at St Ives before setting up their own pottery  

The mark shown on the BISPM app shows several variations of Reeve’s mark as he moved around (I agree that there are no dots but it is closer to the mark than Pirie’s which has a horizontal line across it). What I am sure of is it’s definitely not Pirie but the mark on the pots in the photographs are the same which is hard to explain?
The mark on Jason’s example is a repaired fluted porcelain bowl which is well made. I’ll keep a track on what happens & let you know ….hopefully it’s not another Jeff Larkin!
Kind regards & thanks again.
Neil

The original post was back in 2014. With hindsight it's obviously nothing like Ian Pirie's mark

NaomiM wrote:The original post was back in 2014. With hindsight it's obviously nothing like Ian Pirie's mark

Agreed Naomi
Looks like Jason has plumped for John Reeves on Facebook.
Like you I don’t think it’s that clear!
I would say though that it is hard to concieve but not incredulous that two potters would use so very similar marks and the bust of George Washington & US connection might be a clue.

Did you ever find out who the maker was? Ive this beer? Mug with the same mark . No other marks or patterns

As far as I know there is no positive identification or attribution other than what is above …unfortunately!!
I haven’t seen anything further from Jason other than he withdrew the identification on British studio mystery pots.

There seems to be a distinctive curl on the bottom left, Which Reeve's mark
doesn't have. could it be qSR or PSR (P reversed)?

I would agree with you regarding the curl on the left hand character however, the mark on my ‘teapot’ is more straight than it is curled on the other examples. The only other point I would make is that John Reeve moved around both in this country and abroad and his mark changed significantly. I am not arguing that it is John Reeve’s mark but what is the connection between the suggested mark & Leach pottery. Having looked at the mark on the plaque with George Washington that also has a straighter left hand downstroke though in fairness it is not a full mark - what is also noticeable is that the loops on the reverse R and the R do not always match exactly ie they don’t connect in the same place on the downstroke (not easy to describe!) on the different examples above.
Very much a mystery

I’ve tried to show the difference I am speaking about. There is certainly a cogent argument to say the stamps used were different.
Though I agree they are almost identical

Unfortunately it's still a mystery

Another one, paired with the St Ives stamp

Definitely ….and unfortunately!

Yes Neil, I see what you mean about the loops not always matching.
The left-hand letter could even be a C..?