Blue crown mark - Beyer and Bock, Volkstedt-Rudolstad, Germany

I have had these small Dresden style quatrefoil cups and saucers for around five years and never really managed to find out much info about them.

I have a look at various websites with German and continental backstamps, but no joy. They may remain a mystery, but would be nice to ID them.

Thank you in advance.

Like you I have not been able to find a crown mark remotely like this in the references I have.

They way that base looks in the pictures doesn't point to any type of crisp European ceramics I am aware of. The painting is great but the quality of pottery is low. That would if it is European point to it being early but I think it is from further east and later than that.

It could of course be from one of the less familiar counties like Malta, Spain or Portugal who may have used a cross mark but not have the traditions to produce better ceramics?

But I guess the only way to get better idea is to study it closely. If you have an eye glass or something that you can get a real good look at the decoration. Attempt to see if the design when you look at it closely is made up of tiny dots or is very smooth. If it is then it's is transfer printed, probably 20th century. With that comes a probable Eastern origin. If it is all hand made and you can see signs of wear underneath and to the rim then the chances are it is European and you can keep hunting for its origin closer to home.

Good luck

Thank you Studio-Pots and Mordeep for your replies.

I will take a closer look at them when I get a chance, busy day today!

I do agree with everything that Mordeep has said too.

Mordeep wrote:They way that base looks in the pictures doesn't point to any type of crisp European ceramics I am aware of. The painting is great but the quality of pottery is low. That would if it is European point to it being early but I think it is from further east and later than that.

It could of course be from one of the less familiar counties like Malta, Spain or Portugal who may have used a cross mark but not have the traditions to produce better ceramics?

But I guess the only way to get better idea is to study it closely. If you have an eye glass or something that you can get a real good look at the decoration. Attempt to see if the design when you look at it closely is made up of tiny dots or is very smooth. If it is then it's is transfer printed, probably 20th century. With that comes a probable Eastern origin. If it is all hand made and you can see signs of wear underneath and to the rim then the chances are it is European and you can keep hunting for its origin closer to home.

Good luck

I had a close look with a loupe yesterday, seems to be a combination of transfer printed with some handpainting in places. Could be that those odd handpainted areas might be touch ups. Another mystery that I think may take some time to find the answer! :-)

Ok well that helps with the age of the item and it does move its probable origin further eat.

Ceramics are like anything else made in the world. To make a profit you need to make it as cheaply as possible with as much skill as possible. In the 18th/19th century Europe had cheap labour to hand paint these items. By the 20th century we didn't and other places started making versions of those quality originals. It's not a touch up, this is how it was made. This highlighted transfer was made by workers who didn't have the skill hand paint it all or it was done this way to save cost and there by making this cup and saucer available to a wider group of people. It's worth remembering the 18th/19th century hand painted items were made for the rich and could costs a months wages of your average worker each.

I guess what I am trying to say is this cup is probably Asian, early to mid 20th century and intended as a display piece. If its not then it is the same date and from a 2nd tier European factory making versions of earlier designs again for a wider group of people. It's still a pretty item and armed with a bit more knowledge about what to look for you will be surprised how cheaply you can get hand painted originals. Most people don't look hard enough and miss the gems. Good luck

Thank you Mordeep for your help.

If you're still looking for an answer, I've a decorative plate with the same style of blue crown on the back. Following Mordeep's advice, I looked more closely and also found a faint impressed shield with a B centre. The vintage-and-antiques.co.uk website shows several pieces with these marks, which they identify as Beyer and Bock Porcelain China 1905-1931 from their Volkstedt-Rudolstadt porcelain factory in Thuringia Germany which operated between 1869 and 1960. Hope this helps.

dave@#1 wrote:If you're still looking for an answer, I've a decorative plate with the same style of blue crown on the back.  Following Mordeep's advice, I looked more closely and also found a faint impressed shield with a B centre.  The vintage-and-antiques.co.uk website shows several pieces with these marks, which they identify as Beyer and Bock Porcelain China 1905-1931 from their Volkstedt-Rudolstadt porcelain factory in Thuringia Germany which operated between 1869 and 1960.  Hope this helps.

Many thanks for the information, at least this thread now has an answer and may also help others in the future.