William Staite Murray, M mark
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NaomiM
peterart
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William Staite Murray, M mark
Last edited by NaomiM on Wed Mar 23, 2022 2:51 am; edited 3 times in total (Reason for editing : Not be positively ID'd yet)
peterart- Number of posts : 477
Location : United Kingdom
Registration date : 2016-12-28
Re: William Staite Murray, M mark
Might be William Staite Murray's M mark
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Carrot cake is just fake cake
Re: William Staite Murray, M mark
Many thanks. I am learning re;studio pottery
Take care
Peter
Take care
Peter
peterart- Number of posts : 477
Location : United Kingdom
Registration date : 2016-12-28
Re: William Staite Murray, M mark
The brushwork and it being heavy do point to it being William Staite Murray and the mark looks fine but it would be good to see a larger clearer image of the mark to confirm.
If it is Staite Murray a very good find.
If it is Staite Murray a very good find.
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William Staite Murray
I have just noticed that Deptford boy and one of the fathers of studio pottery in the UK does have a thread so here goes.
Born in 1881 over his father's premises in Deptford High Street, Murray began potting around 1915 in Kensington with Cuthbert Hamilton, before moving to his own premises in Rotherhithe. He ceased potting at the outbreak of the Second World War in 1939 when he moved to Rhodesia to avoid the war, and died in 1962.
He is probably best remembered for heading the Pottery Department at the Royal College of Art in London from 1926 until 1939 and for his association with artists of the time, such as Ben Nicholson and Christopher Wood, and asking "artist prices" for his pots.
Born in 1881 over his father's premises in Deptford High Street, Murray began potting around 1915 in Kensington with Cuthbert Hamilton, before moving to his own premises in Rotherhithe. He ceased potting at the outbreak of the Second World War in 1939 when he moved to Rhodesia to avoid the war, and died in 1962.
He is probably best remembered for heading the Pottery Department at the Royal College of Art in London from 1926 until 1939 and for his association with artists of the time, such as Ben Nicholson and Christopher Wood, and asking "artist prices" for his pots.
Admin edit: wrote:
Via http://www.interpretingceramics.com/issue016/articles/01.htm
Dora Billington and William Staite Murray at the RCA -
In 1919, [Billington] began to teach at the Central as well as the RCA. Her RCA contract ended in 1925 when William Staite Murray was appointed pottery instructor. The circumstances of Staite Murray’s appointment, and the ill-feeling that arose between him and Bernard Leach as a consequence, are well-known.32 However, the circumstances of Billington’s departure from the RCA are less familiar. Her explanation, which she gave to Farleigh twenty-five years later, was that,
When Professor Rothenstein became Principal of the College, he felt that the junior staff should not stay beyond a certain number of years, and we were all informed that we should not be kept on.33
That is not entirely convincing. William Rothenstein had been appointed in 1920 and Billington did not leave for another five years. In 1925, she was thirty-five and had been teaching at the RCA for ten years, so she was hardly ‘junior’. The explanation is more likely to be found in the new policies that Rothenstein had introduced to the College. He had been hired to improve the reputation of the RCA, which was poor. He thought that what it needed was not full-time, professional teachers but practicing artists of distinction who should have studios in the College and who would teach by example.34
He supported Billington’s expansion of the pottery class and her acquisition of throwing wheels35 and a high-temperature kiln.36 As a result of her efforts, the course was awarded Grand Prix in Technical Instruction at the 1925 Paris Exposition des Arts Décoratifs et Industriels.37 Why, then, despite his initial support and Billington’s undoubted achievements, did Rothenstein appoint Staite Murray in her place? He was unimpressed by much of the work being done in the design department, including that in her class:
Much of the work in the Schools of Pottery, of Painting and Decorating and of Metalwork is too unexperimental and derivative. No consistent attempt appears to have been made to deal with the interpretation of the contemporary world in design and execution. A wrong understanding of the spirit which made mediaeval art so vital persists at Kensington, and the research work towards the discovery of new subject matter and new treatment, so noticeable on the Continent, seem to have been wanting.38
At first, he thought that she might be assisted by visits from Alfred and Louise Powell, the ‘ablest and most scholarly pottery painters’ he knew.39 But that was in 1920. By 1924, Staite Murray had emerged as the leading exponent of the new studio pottery, and although Billington had exhibited and won international prizes, she lacked Murray’s reputation. She was primarily a teacher, she did not have her own studio and she was still working in the Arts and Crafts manner. The explanation that she was given, that junior staff 'should not stay beyond a certain number of years', was probably Rothenstein’s diplomatic gloss on sacking her.
Billington was arguably a better teacher than Staite Murray, who said 'A Zen master teaches by not-teaching'.40 Some of his students said they received no instruction from him at all, and when Robert Baker took over ceramics after the Second World War he found a locked room full of equipment that had been put there to stop students using it.41 Staite Murray was a charismatic presence and influenced many potters (including Sam Haile, Henry Hammond, Heber Mathews, Robert Washington and Ursula Mommens) but some had to take evening classes at the Central with Billington to learn how to actually make pots and glaze them. Despite this, she wrote admiringly of Staite Murray, 'whose magnificent big pots with their interesting mysterious surface-treatments reach out to possibilities as yet unexplored,'42 and invited him to teach at the Central.43
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Now you should know by now that Potty and I need to see your bottom - we're funny that way!
Re: William Staite Murray, M mark
_________________
Now you should know by now that Potty and I need to see your bottom - we're funny that way!
Re: William Staite Murray, M mark
_________________
Now you should know by now that Potty and I need to see your bottom - we're funny that way!
Re: William Staite Murray, M mark
A state Murray bowl, verynice,
Harold Stewart- Number of posts : 26
Location : London
Registration date : 2022-01-21
Re: William Staite Murray, M mark
Being a dealer, I tend to only put photographs on this site after items are sold, as was the case here. Surprisingly, from my point of view, there was renewed interest in his work a few years ago that led to prices going up. However, this seems to have levelled out now, as more items have come on the market.
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Now you should know by now that Potty and I need to see your bottom - we're funny that way!
Re: William Staite Murray, M mark
An interesting observation. Generally I would have thought William Staite Murray was a very much a specialised area in British Studio pottery collecting. Given that the people who used to collect his work have either stopped collecting, or are no longer here.
Is there a new motive in collecting his work?
Is there a new motive in collecting his work?
philpot- Number of posts : 6712
Location : cambridge
Registration date : 2010-11-06
Re: William Staite Murray, M mark
Yes I looked into this and wrote something somewhere about it. Often museums are very picky and choosy and only want the best from donated collections. Where they do have to take a whole collection they tend to wait a suitable period then sell off what they don't want. Where we think our carefully acquired collection will be proudly displayed for all to enjoy the reality is that it will mostly be in the basement in boxes and then after twenty or thirty years quietly sold off to raise funds for the museum.
I do have to mention J. M. W. Turner, who bequeathed his entire studio on his death in 1851 to the country on the understanding that it would be displayed in a bespoke gallery dedicated to his work. The Clore extension was only added in 1986 some 135 years later.
Changing displays in the Clore Gallery feature work from the Turner bequest which comprises 300 oil paintings and many thousands of sketches and watercolours (including 300 sketchbooks). The Bequest, including all works left behind in Turner’s studio at his death in 1851, forms the vast majority of the Turner collection at Tate.
https://www.tate.org.uk/visit/tate-britain/clore-gallery
I do have to mention J. M. W. Turner, who bequeathed his entire studio on his death in 1851 to the country on the understanding that it would be displayed in a bespoke gallery dedicated to his work. The Clore extension was only added in 1986 some 135 years later.
Changing displays in the Clore Gallery feature work from the Turner bequest which comprises 300 oil paintings and many thousands of sketches and watercolours (including 300 sketchbooks). The Bequest, including all works left behind in Turner’s studio at his death in 1851, forms the vast majority of the Turner collection at Tate.
https://www.tate.org.uk/visit/tate-britain/clore-gallery
Re: William Staite Murray, M mark
There is a very interesting article in the Ceramic Review No.92 (1985) written by Reggie Hyne (a part time potter and architect) who lived near Staite Murray's old studio at Bray Court near Maidenhead (Muriel Rose was mistaken when she wrote he was at Brockley in Kent in her book Artist Potters in England). Hyne paid a visit when a relation of Staite-Murray (Mrs Stuart Murray, his nephew's widow) had put the house up for sale (not sure of the exact date; the article is based on his talk in 1984 but includes photos from the mid-70s). Actually it was two houses; the smaller Arts & Crafts cottage was originally a gardener's house with a connecting door.
The old sherd and sagger piles were still there, along with the kln and studio, although part of the gardens had been lost to the motorway. Staite-Murray and his wife had left in a hurry at the outbreak of war in 1939, fleeing to Rhodesia (as it then was) to stay on his cousin's farm, and leaving unopened letters and dirty dishes behind in his rush to leave. He expected the war to be over quickly, and to return in a few months. He asked his long time assistant Molly to clear up in 1940 when he realised he wouldn't return any time soon (he didn't return until 1957, after his wife died). He asked Molly to keep his glaze recipes a secret which she did. Presumably the new owners of the property cleared the rubbish piles later, but Hyne was allowed to pick through them while he was there.
Also interesting that Molly made a few of her own pots while working for Murray, although her mark isn't recorded, and Staite-Murray's wife decorated some of his tiles. Hyne tracked Molly down and she recalls having to nag Murray to make tea bowls which were used as kiln fillers (Molly wasn't her real name but a nickname used by Murray, and she preferred anonymity so Hyne also sticks with 'Molly' at her request).
Murray hated making domestic ware or lids and saw his work as sculpture and priced his wares accordingly - in 1939 his tea bowls were priced at 4 guineas each; his larger pots ran into hundreds of pounds.
His pots were characteristically wide lipped and heavy bottomed, and tended to suffer from cracks on the base and bloating.
The old sherd and sagger piles were still there, along with the kln and studio, although part of the gardens had been lost to the motorway. Staite-Murray and his wife had left in a hurry at the outbreak of war in 1939, fleeing to Rhodesia (as it then was) to stay on his cousin's farm, and leaving unopened letters and dirty dishes behind in his rush to leave. He expected the war to be over quickly, and to return in a few months. He asked his long time assistant Molly to clear up in 1940 when he realised he wouldn't return any time soon (he didn't return until 1957, after his wife died). He asked Molly to keep his glaze recipes a secret which she did. Presumably the new owners of the property cleared the rubbish piles later, but Hyne was allowed to pick through them while he was there.
Also interesting that Molly made a few of her own pots while working for Murray, although her mark isn't recorded, and Staite-Murray's wife decorated some of his tiles. Hyne tracked Molly down and she recalls having to nag Murray to make tea bowls which were used as kiln fillers (Molly wasn't her real name but a nickname used by Murray, and she preferred anonymity so Hyne also sticks with 'Molly' at her request).
Murray hated making domestic ware or lids and saw his work as sculpture and priced his wares accordingly - in 1939 his tea bowls were priced at 4 guineas each; his larger pots ran into hundreds of pounds.
His pots were characteristically wide lipped and heavy bottomed, and tended to suffer from cracks on the base and bloating.
Last edited by NaomiM on Wed Mar 23, 2022 10:28 pm; edited 1 time in total
_________________
Carrot cake is just fake cake
Re: William Staite Murray, M mark
_________________
Now you should know by now that Potty and I need to see your bottom - we're funny that way!
philpot- Number of posts : 6712
Location : cambridge
Registration date : 2010-11-06
Re: William Staite Murray, M mark
Two William Staite Murray pieces at the COCA York. From the Bill Ismay collectin
The large high vase is called Anubis made when Staite Murray was at Bray 1937/39. 43.7 cms high. Bill Ismay was always very generous with his loans for exhibitions. This one was lent to the 1984 exhibition of William Staite Murray's work at the Cleveland Gallery in Middlesborough and at the V&A in London. The Crafts Council published a 96 page paperback to accompany the exhibition. This was written by Malcolm Haslam. For anyone interested in William Staite Murray's work it is well worth reading.
The large high vase is called Anubis made when Staite Murray was at Bray 1937/39. 43.7 cms high. Bill Ismay was always very generous with his loans for exhibitions. This one was lent to the 1984 exhibition of William Staite Murray's work at the Cleveland Gallery in Middlesborough and at the V&A in London. The Crafts Council published a 96 page paperback to accompany the exhibition. This was written by Malcolm Haslam. For anyone interested in William Staite Murray's work it is well worth reading.
Last edited by philpot on Wed Jul 05, 2023 9:48 pm; edited 2 times in total
philpot- Number of posts : 6712
Location : cambridge
Registration date : 2010-11-06
Re: William Staite Murray, M mark
I do not doubt what you tells us the labels at COCA York say, philpot, but I have checked in the book by Sarah Riddick - Pioneer Studio Pottery (The Milner-White Collection) that says it contains "detailed entries ... for every piece in the collection". Neither of these items appear in that book.
I wonder who is correct?
I wonder who is correct?
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Now you should know by now that Potty and I need to see your bottom - we're funny that way!
Re: William Staite Murray, M mark
Thanks studio!
philpot- Number of posts : 6712
Location : cambridge
Registration date : 2010-11-06
philpot- Number of posts : 6712
Location : cambridge
Registration date : 2010-11-06
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