Chinese Qianlong export porcelain

18thC Ch'ien-lung lidded bowl, famille rose decoration. The gilding would have been added in Europe

I've 2 pieces of what I think are Chinese porcelain but I'd like to have a more expert opinion please!
They are a tea bowl and a miniature vase and both are unmarked.
Both have been damaged (a crack in the bowl, a few chips to the vase) but as I know nothing about oriental ceramics I bought them purely to develop my knowledge.
I'd be very grateful if anyone could tell me whether my identifications are correct; tea bowl Chinese late 18thC and vase Chinese late 19thC?







Thanks!

I think this is Famille Rose style.

Thanks, yes I had wondered whether it was Famille Rose or Verte possibly as there seems to be an equal amount of both colours?
The vase doesn't seem to have the quality of painting of the tea bowl, hence my estimation of a later date....

Agreed, looks like Chinese Qianlong famille rose. Teabowl could be mid 18thC, the vase might be a bit later

18thC hand painted blue & white Chinese teabowl

I have no real knowledge of Chinese pots and have kept away because they are so hard to date, so I have no grounds to argue with you saying that it's 18th century.

However, as photographs are not the best at showing the age of anything, could you give any tips as to dating this type of thing?

SP - I ask on one of the Chinese groups on FB which has very experienced collectors of Chinese ceramics that I trust.  

Qianlong plate, handpainted in the Mandarin pattern, c.1780









Three handpainted Qianlong plates

9" Qianlong plate with peony and bamboo pattern, c.1750s

Reference tips (studio-pots): I find that firing flaws can be a good indicator, particularly the "rust spots" that you see on the older porcelain, pre late 19th century. Also, the weight can be a good indicator. I was caught out by a dealer a few years back, with a lovely pair of Quinlong vases (or so I thought), only to find that they were made not long prior to my purchase. I know now that they should have been far lighter in weight, but they were convincing fakes. It is a tricky ball park to play in, but the more older pieces that you see & feel in the flesh, the easier it becomes.

The classic sign is the orange peel surface, with little pin point dips in the glaze. Plus the blue tint to the glaze. Crazing of the glaze is no indicator of age; it's easy to induce crazing straight out of the kiln. Weight is also an indicator - current copies are quite thick and heavy. The colour of the cobalt blue is an indication, with a darker grey-blue being more common on earlier pieces; a rich dark blue in the 19thC and a bright mid blue in the 20thC, becoming quite pale and washed out in late 20th-21st Centuries.
The plates above are hand painted, including the boarders which leave an indented surface when held to the light. Later copies are transfer printed.
Colour of foot rims are important. Older pieces are more likely to be orange or white - the orange coming from being fired on straw - , while modern fakes are black and sooty from being fired on sawdust, or have a brown wash applied to look dirty. But some are also orange so it's not fool proof.

Great points made Naomi.
Yes, that subtle orangey banding around the base is another one that I look out for, along with some of the other tell tale signs you mention.

To add, new chemical based colours were developed in the latter half of the 19thC and were quickly introduced into the Oriental colour palette

6”, 2 pint, barrel shaped mug with hand painted cobalt underglaze Nanking decoration.

Alex J wrote:

denbydump wrote:I think this is Famille Rose style.

Oops, the thread had ‘famille rose’ in the title from the first posting, and obviously the blue & white pieces are not part of that. I’ve removed the phrase.

Not so sure the date attributed to the lidded pot at the top of the thread is right, the faces of the figures look more modern to me. I may well be wrong, just my thoughts.

Qianlong famille rose custard cup and lid

Qianlong custard cup without lid

Late Yongzheng or early Qianlong teabowl. c.1725. The design is copied from c.1700 Japanese Imari

Chinese Qainlong jug with sparrow’s beak spout. Broken and glued at some point but still nice to have in the reference collection

Chinese Famille Rose, Qianlong, export porcelain with brown rim.






Smaller one, without a brown rim

Polychrome saucer








Pair of Qianlong Chinese export polychrome plates