Re: Lincoln and Newark fairs

by **big ed** May 30th 2011, 5:30 pm

I will be this time.

by **Nic** May 30th 2011, 7:23 pm

Aye, I ambled across to Lincoln Showground on the second day last time I was there... and it was half-empty (but then most of the dealers there are of the 'trade only' variety). It's why I chose Newark rather than Lincoln, instead of 'as well as'.

But I think a lot of the main fairs are getting a bit tired now - I've more or less stopped going to them with the idea of buying new stock, and only bother if I fancy a day out.

There are a few - just a few - interesting 20th Century fairs about. Most of them are down London way, charge an arm and a leg to stand, and have huge waiting lists to stand (or are by invitation only)... but a lot of the 'good' C20 dealers are eschewing the traditional fairs for these.

by **big ed** May 30th 2011, 7:41 pm

We do treat it as a mini break /holiday type thing , but I do like to try and find pieces to resell later on , items that I want to keep are getting few and far between , fortunately I like contemporary ceramics and can go straight to the source if needs be , some of the stuff I saw today they couldn't give it away , not because there was anything wrong with it ,it's just that it's had its day , I offered £15 for a bolingey vase because Kath's bro collects it it had a little damage , he wanted £20 , so no deal , same thing with a celtic bull , £5 less I offered than the £50 she wanted again no deal ( nose back into her book , dealers .........My A*** Laughter

by **Nic** May 31st 2011, 10:31 am

That 'they let a sale go over a piddly £5' thing cuts both ways, of course - because so did you. Cheeky

Knowing some dealers, that £5 probably represents their entire profit on the item. Laughter

by **big ed** May 31st 2011, 12:31 pm

I let it go because at the end of the day I wasn't too fussed about them , they on the other hand make no money and will probably be stuck with the stuff for god knows how long , I remember when I was a lot younger a car salesman wouldn't knock off £50 on a £3000 car , he was adamant I would be back , Wrong !, as you say piddling ammounts can cost lots.

by **Nic** June 2nd 2011, 2:29 am

I think it depends on the dealer. For some of them... possibly many of them... £5 off a low-cost item can be the difference between ekeing a tiny profit and making a tiny loss.

I'm not sure what the point is in carrying items with such puny returns... but you'd be surprised how many dealers think differently (or maybe not, given the amount of £1-5 tat at fairs).

by **big ed** June 2nd 2011, 6:42 am

I don't think they are just ekeing out a profit ,even on the £1-£10 items it might be a puny ammount but this stuff is bought at auctions by the box load for £1-£2 so there is a healthy profit in there , I don't think it would make much of a fair if everything was at the upper end of the market price wise , there has to be a balance and place for all sorts imo.

by **Nic** June 2nd 2011, 10:28 am

Aye, they might get the stock for next to nothing, but on top of costs of the boxload from the auction they still probably have to sell 50-100 items at a few pounds each per fair just to break even on table and petrol costs.

But a lot of dealers in the under £50 bracket will work on a 20-30% profit margin. And in those instances £5 can sometimes be the difference between profit and loss, before even taking into account table/petrol.

by **dantheman** June 2nd 2011, 11:41 am

I found that the carboot tat was paying the bills as I was buying for 20p and selling for around the £10 mark

by **Nic** June 2nd 2011, 12:13 pm

At fairs?

by **dantheman** June 2nd 2011, 12:36 pm

nope at antique centres

by **Nic** June 2nd 2011, 12:57 pm

Antiques centres tend to be a lot cheaper than fairs, so you're starting at much less of a financial disadvantage.

Say you stand 5-10 fairs a month, as a regular dealer, then - assuming you take the cheapest stands at the cheapest fairs, don't travel too far, and own a vehicle with good petrol consumption - that's instantly a minimum of £500-£1000 you have to make before you've even covered the immediate costs of standing the fairs. This doesn't include cost of stock, costs of travelling to get the stock, non-petrol costs of running a vehicle (road tax, insurance, MOT, repairs), food costs at the fair, and possibly accomodation.

So even if you're selling low-cost items with an ostensibly big return, you've still got to shift a heck of a lot of them over a month before you've got any actual profit to take home.

by **dantheman** June 2nd 2011, 6:51 pm

sounds like a mugs game Lincoln and Newark fairs - Page 5 896643

by **big ed** June 2nd 2011, 7:09 pm

It does sound like a mugs game , I agree , but the fact is you can't start costing things like food , road tax , mot's etc into the equation , that called living and everybody does it , you might as well add in shoe leather n'stuff , the tat sellers ,add that stuff on as a sideline to bigger items and these folks tend to be the nomadic gypsy types , I know some who actually live in the vans , one woman in particular with her dog ( boy do they stink), not many would do 10 fairs a month and they couldn't possibily be in a close linked area .

by **skay** June 2nd 2011, 7:45 pm

But what if that 'is' your living? If a person is a dealer with no other income they have to factor in shoe leather don't they?

xx

by **big ed** June 2nd 2011, 7:54 pm

If it's your living , then you should have words with your supplier and their costs , because if you have to pass on everything to the customer then your business wont go very far , people always have a choice , remeber customers have cars and taxes and eat as well , also I doubt there are very many who actually do it as their sole means of living .

by **skay** June 2nd 2011, 8:00 pm

Yes, I don't really know many (if any) where it is their sole income. Just wondering Shrugs

xx

by **big ed** June 2nd 2011, 8:07 pm

I agree some cost have to be factored in , fair enough, everybody likes a profit but I just think there is a limit , food etc isn't an option we eat wether we are at fairs or not and motors need taxing , of topic slightly -something that bugs me a little about some ebay sellers are the ones who chage extra for packaging , I have sold hundreds of pots etc. and never charged for packing why? it doesn't cost anything , a simple word with shopkeepers and boxes are free .

by **skay** June 2nd 2011, 8:18 pm

But that's sort of what I meant if one was relying on dealing for their sole income. They would need to be very good at it - but some must do it, without being on the telly surely - I don't know.

About the packaging, when I played ebay a few years ago I was lucky enough to have a friend I worked with who gave me a huge roll of bubblewrap from his night job, bigger than me. And I got free boxes (A4 paper ones) from the office I worked in. But, if you don't know shopkeepers etc., and have to buy it Sad

Mugs game

xx

by **skay** June 2nd 2011, 8:21 pm

By the way, the 200+ boxes in the loft were taken away from me by Mr skay 'fire hazzard apparently' but half the bubble wrap is still in the loft. POA.

xx

by **Nic** June 2nd 2011, 8:25 pm

big ed wrote:...but the fact is you can't start costing things like food , road tax , mot's etc into the equation , that called living and everybody does it.

Not when you are running a van especially for the business (it's fairly standard - even I'm having to look into this for next year), and have a car for the day-to-day stuff.

And fair food, when you have to buy it, costs a whole lot more than food if you're at home (unless you're terminally lazy and live next to a £7 pastie shop!).

The taxman, thankfully, appreciates that food costs more when you're on the road, and you're allowed a deductible allowance each day you're away from home. We're not talking House of Lord's £90 daily food allowance, unfortunately!

by **big ed** June 2nd 2011, 8:27 pm

Wev'e got our supplier for Bwrap ta , , Idea - maybe we should go into the box and bubblewrap business Laughter

by **big ed** June 2nd 2011, 8:29 pm

Nic - you are allowed to claim if you are using a van for business .

by **Nic** June 2nd 2011, 8:30 pm

big ed wrote:...a simple word with shopkeepers and boxes are free .

Boxes are (usually) neither here nor there, I agree, but good bubblewrap and packing peanuts sometimes have to be bought. I usually spend about £200-250 p/a on that, tape, labels, printer ink, etc...

Thankfully one of my suppliers has a bubblewrap and packing peanut fetish, so I've got a shed full of free surplus! Laughter

by **big ed** June 2nd 2011, 8:31 pm

buying food at a fair is very expensive , is it not possible to bring your own in .

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