Woolley & wallis

A lot/most/all auction houses have put up prices this year I think it partly coincides with not being able to charge more for credit card payments anymore. Not that I'm trying to make excuses for them. It just means you have to bid lower to take into account higher fees. Don't forget that 25% + vat = 30% and anyone daft enough to bid via the saleroom will pay another 7% on top.

Thieves in auctioneer's clothing

Some nice stuff

https://www.woolleyandwallis.co.uk/departments/20th-century-design/da190619/?p=1&s=40&v=list

Their Arts & Craft sale. Lot of lovely Martin Bros and Pilkington, but the studio offering is fairly minor. As a footnote to costs in previous postings. If you bid Online through the Saleroom the Buyer's Premium, Online sales Platform Premium, + VAT, add up to a whopping 35.9% 'Buyer's' charge. That does not include any Artists Right premium on the higher value items.

Like a no. of other auction houses they now offer their own on-line bidding which does not incur any extra fees.

Do you think that auction houses will go the same way as the high street and simply not be needed any more? All going online? If they gave better descriptions and some form of returns policy (not caviat emperor). I mean it's happen to many banks, video shops = *poof* gone! So in twenty years there may not be any auction rooms.

No, because terrestrial auctions operate under a different set of laws that does not make them liable to normal consumer legislation. The 'Caveat Emptor' is exactly how they do their business, and the law protects them.
In recent years of course, they have attracted a lot more joe public, and are acting more like normal galleries. So maybe in the future the law might be changed. But that is pure conjecture.

Perhaps these crazy high commission prices are symptomatic of the poor state of the provincial auction house ATM? Methinks they are becoming harder and harder to make money from.

The buyer's commission has steadily increased since it was first introduced by the Big London auction houses three decades or more ago. With a lot more general public buying direct from auction, and the general winnowing of the antique trade, its only a logical progression.
Sothebys, Christies have gone substantially upmarket in the price level at which they start. Hence the demise of Christies South Kensington. So there is a very clear gap in the auctioneering market for sub a couple of thousand £ items. The gap that the provincial 'Fine Art' auctioneers, have tried to secure in the past decade. Some have suceeeded, some not done so well. The costs in terms of prestige offices, experts, detailed cataloguing etc are a good deal more than your average run of the mill auctioneers. Mind you, most of them are still part of businesses that do estate agency, commercial property, surveying etc which have been going for well over 100 (some 200) years.

I think Philpot has got it about right, art auctions are often only one strand of businesses. Also to attract quality items the sellers commission will often be a lot less than for buyers. I regard viewing at a quality sale like visiting the V & A but being able to handle all the exhibits. I know a lot of members think the internet is best but even ebay has steadily increased its charges - inc taking commission on postage ! - then there are paypal fees etc.

https://www.woolleyandwallis.co.uk/departments/20th-century-design/da271119/?p=1&s=160&v=list#lot-318

British Art Pottery catalogue 27 November.   Loads of Martin Bros again. These often seem to dominate these sales now. Not too much Poole, but an interesting selection of Studio pottery from several private collections. Don't often see Mo Jupp at auction.

The Martin Bros pottery attracts me far more than the work of today's studio potters but 25% plus vat prevents me from bidding

Problem is Dan, where else would you get it? Prices through the Antique trade would be far higher, and specialist galleries even more so. It not as if you can straight to the potter to buy Martin Bris stuff...
Mind you, it probably has been a good investment for some people. The Wally Birds alone now go for ten of thousands,

Dan, is it just a matter of principle because ultimately whether the total commission is 10% or 30% what only really matters is what you want to pay for something, it doesn't matter how that money is apportioned. As Philpot says it will be cheaper than other retail sources and it doesn't mean that bargains cannot be had at even the more prestigious auction houses.

I might have been swayed by your very good points guys but if I add a fancy courier's fee to the auction house fee and the tax then it seems a little steep.
You have to remember I'm a Yorkshireman

If I'm going to bid on something that isn't in my vicinity then it has to be good enough to warrant me driving to collect it and I'll then take fuel costs into consideration. Otherwise you've got too much to trust to others - not just the quality of someone's condition report but also the quality of packing and then the transport and delivery. Too many opportunities for problems for which there may be no 'come backs'. Also if I collect I can check the item before I leave the premises.
The other way is to have friends around the country who can collect items for you, which can work both ways.

Truth to tell Dan, you are obviously suffering from complete-overcollectivitus….
The true avid,rabid collector (who is not satiated!) will move heaven and earth and more, to get his heart's desire.

it's just pots

I agree with Philpot, others are looking to covert and infill missing pieces of their collection. Some have money to burn if the pot is right.

Dan,  methinks you have completely moved from from collector to dealer.

I looked through and I thought it was a really good sale. Something for everyone.

We could really do with a thread on the philosophy of collecting Or have we got one? Having recently downsized from a to a bungalow, we had to make some serious choices in what to get rid of. A good deal of the Leach inspired work of ours has gone, and a good deal of the slipware. But Mary Wondrausch and John Pollex still we have, but the Bowen's have gone. How do you make the choices?
Still interested in studio of course, and we will buy the odd piece here and there occasionally, but it will be more filling in gaps rather than trying to cover the whole gamut.

I would be interested in a thread that explores the psychology of collecting, for me the big game-changer came several years ago when I bought my Holy Grail piece of pottery, I was with a very seasoned collector at the time and he wisely predicted it would change my view on any piece I saw from that day on.

eRRRRRMMMM…
So you obtained the Holy Grail, the Sum of all Heart's Desire. That possession turned you into a non-believer then?
The psychology of collecting has many books devoted to it, let alone a small thread. Good idea though. It seems a natural human trait. I bet stone-age man kept his collection of flint axes, and then boasted about the fineness of the cut,the incredible quality workmanship of the flint, the ultra-rarity of the type of flint blah blah .and succeeded in boring people rigid!

I have noticed that many collectors chase the items that will impress other collectors and spend little time admiring the beauty of their most prized pieces.
I have often thought of selling pots but after looking at them through a magnifying glass I have decided they are far too beautiful to let go

What you are talking about there, is pottery as an Art Form. Throughout history, art in all its forms has inspired human beings. From literature, to paintings, to sculpture, to many other different forms. Great Art inspires the soul. The best pottery is part of that inspiration. Perhaps that is why we collect, and we vie for the very best of what we can get. Because great art is a thing of joy.